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Why the heck do my pork butts take so long to cook?

My last post to the board was about a pork butt that was on for 21 hours and still wasn't completely done. I did my second butt yesterday. It was a very small (maybe 3ish lbs) boneless butt. I brined it for a day then let it sit in its rub for two (meant to be only one, but couldn't cook it on Saturday).

After 9 hours at 250 it was only at 180. Seriously, you could almost call this thing an oversized pork chop and it wasn't even close to done after 9 hours. I bumped up the BGE and pulled it at 189. It was a good roasted pork shoulder, but it wasn't pullable so it's not pulled pork. Why the heck are my low & slows so freakin' slow?

I have the dome thermometer, a Maverick 733, and a Thermapen. All of them read similar enough that I know my temps are good. Is it because I start with the meat cold right out of the fridge? Is there some polar vortex happening on my back patio which affects only my BGE? What the heck is it? I've been wanting to try my first brisket, but if it's anything like these pork butts I'll have to have it on the BGE for a week.

More info...

Unlike my first butt I didn't put in any drip pans or foil. Cook was done on the SS grate and the PS with BGE lump and four blocks of hickory.

LBGE in PHX

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Comments

  • Foghorn
    Foghorn Posts: 9,795
    So, just to be clear - your dome temp and your grate temp were 250?  Or at least within a few degrees of each other?  Such that when you say you are cooking at 250 there is no question that you are at least close to that temp?

    Because (and you have already figured this out) it sounds like you are cooking at 200 or so based on your times.

    If you are sure of your thermometers, then all I can suggest is that you try 275 or 300 next time.

    Sorry I'm not more help.

    XXL BGE, Karebecue, Klose BYC, Chargiller Akorn Kamado, Weber Smokey Mountain, Grand Turbo gasser, Weber Smoky Joe, and the wheelbarrow that my grandfather used to cook steaks from his cattle

    San Antonio, TX

  • Do you use a water pan and if so, do you keep it 'filled'?  If so, that water absorbs thermal energy (and isn't really necessary in the BGE) and could be slowing you down.  Also...good question from Foghorn.  Your Maverick was on the grate or did you have it attached to the dome thermometer stem?  Just verifying everything was really at 250F.
    North Pittsburgh, PA
    1 LGE
  • Thanks for the help, folks. No water pan or drip pan or any additional aluminum in the BGE. The Maverick probe was on the grill grate and both it and the dome temp were reading within 10* of each other in the 250ish range.

    And, to add some data, I tried my first one at 215-225 and raised this one to 250. I don't mind raising the cooking temp, but I was under the impression that low and slows were best at the lowest I can maintain the BGE (but still above my target meat temp, of course).

    LBGE in PHX

  • 250 dome will normally be around 225 at the grate for the majority of the cook. At this temp you can figure pretty closed to 2 hours per pound with no wrapping.  Normally an 8 pounder will take around 16 hours. However don't be afraid to wrap and bump up the heat if you need to push it through and get it done quicker. Lots on the forum will tell you there is no difference between low and slow and turbo as far as taste goes.

    NW IA

    2 LBGE, 1 SBGE, 22.5 WSM, 1 Smokey Joe

  • brining will do it too.  part of the stall in a butt is driving out the water.  if you add water, you add time.

    250 dome is about 2 hours a pound for me i think.  you can co 275, even 300, and no one is the wiser.  and you'll be done much sooner
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • 250 dome will normally be around 225 at the grate for the majority of the cook. At this temp you can figure pretty closed to 2 hours per pound with no wrapping.  Normally an 8 pounder will take around 16 hours. However don't be afraid to wrap and bump up the heat if you need to push it through and get it done quicker. Lots on the forum will tell you there is no difference between low and slow and turbo as far as taste goes.

    So is my Maverick wrong or did I have it in a bad location, because it and the dome thermometer were in lock step? I might have had it above one of the "slots" in the PS which would probably be hotter than right above the PS were the meat was sitting.

    LBGE in PHX

  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
    Well, the temp/calibration has already been addressed.   It may be helpful to remove variables and go for consistency.  Chose a routine, and then dial things in by experimenting with just one thing per cook.  I also try and cook the same size butts each time to aid with predictability.   I think it is easier to cook larger butts than small ones - as they are much more forgiving.

    Brining does add time, as was previously mentioned. I'd take the stress off yourself by building 4 hours of foil towel cooler (ftc) into your cook plan.


    Phoenix 
  • JethroVA
    JethroVA Posts: 1,251
    Try not brining.  Also try turbo method and wrapping in foil to push through the stall.  That's all I do.  
    Richmond and Mathews County, VA. Large BGE, Weber gas, little Weber charcoal. Vintage ManGrates. Little reddish portable kamado that shall remain nameless here.  Very Extremely Stable Genius. 
  • Jeepster47
    Jeepster47 Posts: 3,827
    edited February 2016
    I have concerns with the 2 hours per pound number once you start bisecting the butt.  It takes time to drive heat into the butt and then time at temp to render the fat.  Cutting an 8 lb butt in quarters doesn't mean that it will become pulled pork in 30 minutes per pound.

    I have an 8 pound butt on right now ... been cooking along at 250* for 16.5 hours and the darn bone is still tight ... getting there, but not quite right yet.  So, the 2 hours per pound is reasonably close on this butt.  It's probably good for a whole butt in the 6 to 10 pound range, but outside of that ...

    Edit ... just checked and the butt has been hung up at 197 degrees for four hours.  No real stall down around 150 ~ 160 degrees, so I guess I'm paying the price now.

    Washington, IL  >  Queen Creek, AZ ... Two large eggs and an adopted Mini Max

  • GregW
    GregW Posts: 2,676
    edited February 2016
    As I understand the laws of thermodynamics.......if you double the thickness of the meat it will take 4 times longer to reach the desired temperature.
    Also when you reach the stall the rendering of the fat begins. Think of how much heat you have to apply to a block of ice to get it to melt. It goes from 32 degree ice to 32 degree water with a substantial amount of heat applied with no increase in temperature.  The rendering of the fat follows the same principle.
  • GregW said:
    As I understand the laws of thermodynamics.......if you double the thickness of the meat it will take 4 times longer to reach the desired temperature.
    Also when you reach the stall the rendering of the fat begins. Think of how much heat you have to apply to a block of ice to get it to melt. It goes from 32 degree ice to 32 degree water with a substantial amount of heat applied with no increase in temperature.  The rendering of the fat follows the same principle.
    Your thinking way to hard.
    Plumbers local 130 chicago.     Why do today what you can do tomorrow

    weapons: XL, Minie, old gasser, weber, v10 Bradley smoker and sometimes talent!

    Bristol, Wisconsin 
  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892

    I did a half of a butt on Saturday which weighed in over 4 pounds. I figured the little thing would cook much quicker than the 8-10 pounders so I cooked it at 230-240* (dome)  vs the 270* I normally cook at. After 8 hours it was only in the 170's. Bumped the heat up to 270 to finish the cook; took 2 more hours.

    From now on I'll be staying in the 270* range.

  • onedbguru
    onedbguru Posts: 1,647
    my butts 7-10lbs typically go right at 14hrs at ~250-275 dome (I have an XL). I make sure every once in a while to calibrate my dome thermometer. 
  • Ladeback69
    Ladeback69 Posts: 4,482
    I like cooking them between 250 and 275 and it is usually 1-1.5 hours per pound at that temp.  I don't usually brine,but do inject.
    XL, WSM, Coleman Road Trip Gas Grill

    Kansas City, Mo.
  • 4Runner
    4Runner Posts: 2,948
    edited February 2016
    I'm usually 1.5 hours per # when grate is 250.   The last one that went 2 hours a # we were experiencing very wet conditions and others in my area that weekend also were reporting extra long cooks.  Moisture I guess in that case?  Just 2 weeks ago I did 2 butt at the same time and they finished 2 hours apart even though they were roughly the same size.  You just never know.  
    Joe - I'm a reformed gasser-holic aka 4Runner Columbia, SC Wonderful BGE Resource Site: http://www.nakedwhiz.com/ceramicfaq.htm and http://www.nibblemethis.com/  and http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/2006/02/recipes.html
    What am I drinking now?   Woodford....neat
  • I've brined my butts one severe occasions and have never had them take more than 12 hours for an 8 lbs. butt.  That has always been running the temp at around 225 dome temp.

    Pork butt shouldn't be taking 2 hours per pound.
    LBGE & Masterbuilt 30" Stainless Electric Digital Smokehouse w/Cold Smoker
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,665
    boil some water and calibrate the dome thermo, if its just 20 degrees off its going to make a big difference on a low and slow, checking it is the only way to know. i check mine before EVERY overnight cook. mine always take 14 hours because at the 9 hour mark i readjust the temps up or down to make it happen =) skip the brine, useless in my opinion when your cooking out the moisture anyways
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • boil some water and calibrate the dome thermo, if its just 20 degrees off its going to make a big difference on a low and slow, checking it is the only way to know. i check mine before EVERY overnight cook. mine always take 14 hours because at the 9 hour mark i readjust the temps up or down to make it happen =) skip the brine, useless in my opinion when your cooking out the moisture anyways
    @fishlessman is it common for the dome thermo to change after you've calibrated it?  are there specific triggers (for example do high temp cooks affect the thermo more than low and slow cooks, etc?).  just wondering how much to check the thermo
    LBGE, 2016 Rookie Year; Southern CT
  • GregW
    GregW Posts: 2,676
    Roadpuke0 said:
    GregW said:
    As I understand the laws of thermodynamics.......if you double the thickness of the meat it will take 4 times longer to reach the desired temperature.
    Also when you reach the stall the rendering of the fat begins. Think of how much heat you have to apply to a block of ice to get it to melt. It goes from 32 degree ice to 32 degree water with a substantial amount of heat applied with no increase in temperature.  The rendering of the fat follows the same principle.
    Your thinking way to hard.
    Your not the first to say that.
  • dougcrann
    dougcrann Posts: 1,129
    325*....only thing we have noticed is less bark...which is a win for us seeing as how we don't like the bark anyhow. I use a Reverse Flow every now and then. It will not run, controllably, at under 275*. Every thing we have had from it has turned out great. I don't put a whole lot of stock in that whole 225* gig anymore...
  • dougcrann said:
    325*....only thing we have noticed is less bark...which is a win for us seeing as how we don't like the bark anyhow. I use a Reverse Flow every now and then. It will not run, controllably, at under 275*. Every thing we have had from it has turned out great. I don't put a whole lot of stock in that whole 225* gig anymore...

    I am with you.   Did a 7 lb. butt for the super bowl and ran it at 300-325 the whole time.   Done in a little under 8 hours and was devoured by all.  
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,168
    @pkegg419 - not @fishlessman here but a few comments on the dome thermo:
    It is the one instrument that comes with every BGE.  As does fishlessman, I check the calibration on mine before every low&slow cook.  Most it has ever been off is around 5 *F.  But I check it as it is the one indicator that I am using to "drive the cook" so I want to know it is accurate.  FWIW-
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • Jeepster47
    Jeepster47 Posts: 3,827
    @pkegg419 ... the thermometers we use in our eggs (Tel-Tru, BGE, Smokeware) are very robust if you stay within their dial range.  Go beyond the max range and then you might cause some damage.  Go well beyond the max range and you'll likely cause some damage.

    The greatest cause of an out of calibration gauge is the *^$%& clip on the stem of the gauge.  Take it off and throw it in your junk drawer ... it's hard to throw shiny objects away.  Then you'll have alleviated the majority of your thermometer problems.  Plus, if you have a second thermometer (spare or in a second egg) and you have any doubts about the thermometer during a cook you can swap it out on the spot and know what's what.

    Washington, IL  >  Queen Creek, AZ ... Two large eggs and an adopted Mini Max

  • Abter
    Abter Posts: 125
    "The greatest cause of an out of calibration gauge is the *^$%& clip on the stem of the gauge."
    I'm no fan of the long stem and clip. I imagine it gets in the way regardless of the size of the egg, but on my medium I found I can't do a beer can chicken, and probably got closer than I like to the oven stuffer I did last weekend.
    BUT...what s the alternative?  What can you use to replace the clip?

    PS...I'm still a newbie here.  If this has been discussed, debated, and beaten into a pulp a million times before I apologize.
    Stay Calm and Egg On
    1 lonely medium in Rockville, MD
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,168
    @Abter- don't worry about replacing.  Get a wine cork, drill a hole and then run your thermo thru the cork on the outside of the BGE.  It moves the thermo further out and allows it to be positioned w/o messing with the calibration nut.
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,665
    just throw the clip away. some put a spacer on the outside under the dial so the stem will be shorter inside the egg. others buy a shorter stem therm but the gages read lower temps if the stem is too short(this really is not an issue)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • dougcrann
    dougcrann Posts: 1,129
    Thanks for the tips on the clip. I recently bent a thermometer when I had the DO to far forward. Bought a Smokeware one a while back. Lasted 5 275* cooks before getting goofy. Have to check the calibration weekly, it is always off. When I went to remove it last time had a bit of carbon on it. Went to twist it, the pointer started moving. Checked the nut...it was tight....out it went...
  • Abter
    Abter Posts: 125
    edited February 2016
    So if I throw the clip away, the thermo and the cork (I can certainly provide that!!!) just sit in the hole in the dome?  Wont it fall off when you open the dome?

    I watched the video on how to install the smokeware thermometer, and it shows that a clip comes in the box with the new thermo.  It shows installing a new clip, which is similar clip to the BGE one, on their thermometer when you install it. It seems according to their video all you would have achieved is (a) a better thermo (or at least better looking), and (b) a slightly shorter stem and clip sticking into the egg.

    I think you can see an error in the smokeware video (video editor not paying attention??). After pulling the old thermo and sticking the new one in the hole, the next step is to open the dome and put on the new clip.  But when they open the dome you can pretty clearly see there already is a clip on the just-inserted new thermo.  Then it appears to show you putting the new clip on below the "mystery" clip.  At the very end of the video it appears there are indeed 2 clips on the new stem.  That last statement, however, is under a booth review to see if there is unambiguous evidence of a second clip.
    Stay Calm and Egg On
    1 lonely medium in Rockville, MD
  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,168
    After the above detailed analysis, give gravity a check.  When the dome goes up the angle of the thermo relative to earth (aka gravity) increases so the sine of the angle that relates to the force on the thermo goes up as well.  No worries with it falling out  ;)
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
  • Jeepster47
    Jeepster47 Posts: 3,827
    @Abter ... let me translate @lousubcap 's answer ... Nope!

    Washington, IL  >  Queen Creek, AZ ... Two large eggs and an adopted Mini Max