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Gasket Adhesive Question

cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
edited August 2012 in EggHead Forum
Alright, so I'm definitely not new anymore and I've read the posts about Rutland gaskets vs Nomex gaskets. I'm still a bit leary about the fiberglass in the Rutland gasket, but I'm not here to rehash that debate.

I replaced my stock gasket several months ago with the Nomex gasket that BGE sent me as a replacement. The gasket has held up fabulously after close to 100 pizzas at 600+ degrees. The problem is not the gasket. It is the adhesive. I used the 3M 77 adhesive that is recommended for installing the gasket. Over time the adhesive failed in spots. I reapplied adhesive in a few spots and restuck it to the egg. Last night I was not so lucky. I realized after the egg was at 450 that smoke was coming out of the gasket. This was strange since the gasket has performed flawlessly. What happened was this. The adhesive failed and a large section of gasket, 8 inches or so, had come loose and was in the egg instead of around the dome. 

The gasket is still not fried. It is black and hard in that spot, but I could restick it. I am tired of respraying the Super 77 adhesive and resticking. Is there a better adhesive to use for the nomex? Will the copper adhesive that folks use for the Rutland work for the nomex? I see that Rutland also makes a high temp adhesive. Would this be a good alternative?
Mark Annville, PA
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Comments

  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    rutland makes a hi temp which failed enough that people went to the permatex.


    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • First, not sure what the Rutland gasket is made out of.  For all I know, it could be the SAME material as the Nomex gasket ("Nomex" is just a brand name). 

    Anyway, as far as the adhesive - I know several folks who have just used the Permatex Ultra Copper gasket maker / adhesive as the gasket.  FWIW, when I replace my gasket, that's the path I'm gonna take. 

    Some folks have just squeezed the Permatex onto the lip of the dome, placed some wax paper over it & gently lowered the lid onto it & waited. 

    Others have gotten a bit more inventive - at least one guy used a router & made a female circular cavity template from some plywood (or maybe even plastic) that was 1" wide and the same diameter as the dome lip, then filled that w/ the Permatex & allowed it to cure. 

    Then he pulled the cured Permatex gasket out, and used fresh Permatex as the adhesive to adhere it to the dome lip - it made a much cleaner, more professional looking gasket than just "gooping" the Permatex onto the dome lip as explained above. 

    However, either way works, just depends if you want a gasket which has waves & irregularities in it, or if you want one that looks uniform & professional. 

    HTH,
    Rob
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 22,123
    Nomex is a brand name.  It's not fiberglass, it's an organic material - a synthetic fiber in the amide family - similar to Kevlar.  Rutland's gaskets are made from fiberglass and graphite.

    naked wiz's site has some good info on the Rutland gasket here http://www.nakedwhiz.com/gasketsafety/rutlandgasketsafety.htm
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr., smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    Yep. I read the whiz's site. If it were just me, I'd do the rutland. However, since it hasn't been food tested I'm not going to take any chances with my 2 year old twins. Like I said, nothing wrong with the nomex at all. Just the adhesive that can't take the heat. I bought some rutland gasket cement rated for 2000 degrees. I'm going to give it a shot with the nomex. I bought a new nomex as well since I'm taking the dome off of the egg anyway. I figured I might as well start with everything new.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    buy a tube of the permatex while you are at the store.  will save you a trip after the rutland adhesive fails
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • Cort - why no love for using Permatex by itself, and just having that BE the gasket?  After all, if you look on the tube, the name of the product is:

    Permatex® Ultra Copper® Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (keyword:  gasket MAKER) :P
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • schwaggyschwaggy Posts: 17
    The adhesive that comes pre-glued on the High-Que gaskets has held up very well on my LBGE. I just put one on my new mini after removing the OEM felt POS before the first cook.
    Large BGE, Mini BGE, Weber Summit sitting lonely in the corner...
  • I used the Permatex to put my Rutland on.  No problems so far. 
  • tazcrashtazcrash Posts: 1,851
    Funny that i should find this today. After my meatloaf, something must have stuck to my "new" nomex, and started pulling it. 
    gonna see if i can touch up with the crummy 3m. If not, going gasketless to SWMBO'd dismay. 
    Bx - > NJ ->TX!!! 
    All to get cheaper brisket! 
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056

    Cort - why no love for using Permatex by itself, and just having that BE the gasket?  After all, if you look on the tube, the name of the product is:

    Permatex® Ultra Copper® Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (keyword:  gasket MAKER) :P

    I've thought about it, but I want it to be pretty. I'm a little picky. Also, I don't want to do all of the work like you described in your earlier post. If this fails, I'll try something else. I've also read that using permatex as the gasket voids the warranty. I bought the egg over others because of the warranty, and its excellent reputation.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    sooooo why not use the permatex as the adhesive?
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    @tazcrash the same thing happened to mine. I touched up the adhesive but over the next few weeks it kept failing in different spots. I don't want to go gasketless because of doing low and slows and excess lump consumption.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    stike said:

    sooooo why not use the permatex as the adhesive?

    I was at my dealer with my 2 year old twins in tow. They didn't carry permatex and it was nap time. If you've ever dealt with a cranky 2 year old by yourself in public then you'll have your answer. Oh, multiply that experience by 2. :)
    Mark Annville, PA
  • Hillbilly-HightechHillbilly-Hightech Posts: 966
    edited August 2012

    I've thought about it, but I want it to be pretty. I'm a little picky. Also, I don't want to do all of the work like you described in your earlier post. If this fails, I'll try something else. I've also read that using permatex as the gasket voids the warranty. I bought the egg over others because of the warranty, and its excellent reputation.
    Fair enough regarding the "pretty" part...

    However, I'm wondering - whether someone uses Permatex, or Rutland, or Nomex, etc - if the owner does it himself (ie, installs a new gasket), does that not void the warranty? 

    I'm just asking this cuz, how can BGE know if a "regular" person (rather than a certified dealer) installed the gasket properly, and followed the proper procedure / instructions / and materials?  (ok, the "material" part, I guess they can see whether it's Nomex, or Rutland, or Permatex, but they can't "see" the adhesive, unless they'd do some chemical analysis on it). 

    So to play devil's advocate, what if Joe-Egg-Owner installed a BGE factory gasket, but either didn't do it "properly" or used some weird adhesive such that it failed and/or screwed up the Egg?

    Just thinking out loud here... hehe
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    Rob, I'm with you. I think it is stupid that it voids the warranty. But, it is what it is. If the kids wake up, maybe ill go to the auto parts store for some permatex.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • Hillbilly-HightechHillbilly-Hightech Posts: 966
    edited August 2012
    I guess my question is - does installing even the factory gasket yourself void the warranty?  Does BGE tell folks (ie, private owners) to install the gaskets themselves? 

    Do new Eggs not have the gaskets already on them (it's been too long that I cannot honestly remember if my Egg had the gasket installed).  However, when I got my dome replaced under warranty cuz it cracked, I do know that the dealer gave me a dome which already had a gasket on it...

    So, does anyone know the answer to this?  Anyone, anyone... Bueller... Bueller?? =))
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    installing a factory replacement gasket doesn't void your warranty
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • installing a factory replacement gasket doesn't void your warranty
    Well, there ya go... question answered...

    Thanks Bueller :P
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    BGE sent me a nomex when I fried the factory gasket. I installed it myself as the instructions stated.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    @stike do you think the rutland adhesive will hold up better than super 77?
    Mark Annville, PA
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    super 77 is rubber (contact) cement in sprayable form.  no special adhesives.  it's literally rubber.

    permatex can be used as a gasket all by itself.


    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 22,123
    Using a Hi-Q firegrate, or Woo technically voids your warranty.  Why stop there?

    13.  VOIDING THE WARRANTY:  Any unauthorized modifications or alterations to an EGG will void the Warranty.  This includes drilling holes or tampering with any of the parts; using any parts inside the EGG other than authentic BGE components; or using any internal components in any way other than as intended by the manufacturer.  Modifying or substituting any internal components, including the fire grate and fire ring, will void the Warranty, and BGE expressly disclaims any liability for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damage which may result.  The pouring of lighter fluids or any flammable mixture onto or into an EGG will void the Warranty.  This practice is dangerous and may result in damage or injury.  Please see Safety Tips at BigGreenEgg.com.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr., smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    edited August 2012
    why stop there? because using a gasket they sold you, with their knowledge that you would use it on their product, using the super 77 as they instruct you to, doesn't come the least bit close to anything it that paragraph.

    1 it's not a modification.
    2 it's not an alteration. 
    3 it is not unauthorized (the fact they sell or provide FREE the replacement gasket is tacit proof of the ir approving its use)
    4 it's an "authentic BGE component"
    5 it's not a mod or sub of an internal component
    6 it's not a flammable mixture

    yeah, their warranty has stiffened a little bit, but it is not logical for any reasonable person to read that paragraph and come to the conclusion that buying a replacement gasket from BGE voids the BGE warranty.


    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • tazcrashtazcrash Posts: 1,851
    +1 with Stike, 
    Using their replacement gasket with their instructions sounds like an "Authorized Modification'
    Bx - > NJ ->TX!!! 
    All to get cheaper brisket! 
  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 22,123
    edited August 2012
    why stop there? because using a gasket they sold you, with their knowledge that you would use it on their product, using the super 77 as they instruct you to, doesn't come the least bit close to anything it that paragraph.

    1 it's not a modification.
    2 it's not an alteration. 
    3 it is not unauthorized (the fact they sell or provide FREE the replacement gasket is tacit proof of the ir approving its use)
    4 it's an "authentic BGE component"
    5 it's not a mod or sub of an internal component
    6 it's not a flammable mixture

    yeah, their warranty has stiffened a little bit, but it is not logical for any reasonable person to read that paragraph and come to the conclusion that buying a replacement gasket from BGE voids the BGE warranty.


    I'm referring to the Rutland gasket, sorry, should have been more specific.  Of course if they're not going to give you a gasket that voids the warranty.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr., smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • tazcrashtazcrash Posts: 1,851
    @tazcrash the same thing happened to mine. I touched up the adhesive but over the next few weeks it kept failing in different spots. I don't want to go gasketless because of doing low and slows and excess lump consumption.
    FWIW, After I installed the nomex, I'm not really seeing the egg shut down any faster (caveat: It's only 2 cooks so far). I've even seen smoke leak from the bottom draft door. 
    Bx - > NJ ->TX!!! 
    All to get cheaper brisket! 
  • cortguitarmancortguitarman Posts: 2,056
    Well, the kids were napping and I couldn't wait to go get permatex. I used the rutland adhesive. It was much more messy than the super 77, but I think it will hold better. Time will tell. Thanks for all of the advice and thoughts. I'll update if/when it falls off.
    Mark Annville, PA
  • why stop there? because using a gasket they sold you, with their knowledge that you would use it on their product, using the super 77 as they instruct you to, doesn't come the least bit close to anything it that paragraph.

    1 it's not a modification.
    2 it's not an alteration. 
    3 it is not unauthorized (the fact they sell or provide FREE the replacement gasket is tacit proof of the ir approving its use)
    4 it's an "authentic BGE component"
    5 it's not a mod or sub of an internal component
    6 it's not a flammable mixture

    yeah, their warranty has stiffened a little bit, but it is not logical for any reasonable person to read that paragraph and come to the conclusion that buying a replacement gasket from BGE voids the BGE warranty.


    You sound like a Philly ambulance chaser
  • BuckeyeBobBuckeyeBob Posts: 669
    So basically, a Woo, adjustable Rig, non-BGE stone among others violates the warranty. Has anyone had an experience where BGE voided the warranty solely because of the use of one of these kind of things?
    Clarendon Hills, IL
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    if you make a warranty claim, and it is determined that the damage was caused (or made worse by, i guess) your aftermarket stuff (or mods), then they would have a right to deny the claim.  i don't know of an example (which has been mentioned on the forum) where that actually happened.

    if you submitted a pic of a cracked firebox to BGE for a replacement under warranty, and there was a hi-que grate in it, they could say that your use of the aftermarket grate (in order to maybe hit higher temps) means the firebox could have been compromised

    they're just being prudent.  you can't expect warranty support from BMW if you start tweaking the engine to enhance performance
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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