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davehemp my 2 fire ring thoughts

2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
edited November -1 in EggHead Forum
Hey Dave, After our last conversation from this post.

http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1054124&catid=1

I did try the two fire ring setup again with the plate setter and green feet and large baking stone. My dome did close and I put my hand down the dome vent and felt around. My hand went between the baking stone setting on the plate setter and between the dome with room to spare. My guess is close to 2 inches all the way around.

I never heated the egg or tried to cook on the baking stone to see how it works. It may turn out to be a great technique that works.

If I asked myself what this setup would accomplish I would have to say you may be able to cook a lot more high temp pizzas in a row because you have more room for lump. Of course this is pure speculation. As you know some have said the setup may add more heat to the gasket area.

I say to anyone reading this I am just goofing around to see if it is possible to set a large BGE up with more lump almost past the gasket surface and do some sort of cook. I already have several ways to get my pizza cooked. I'm just curious. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

Here is my large egg setup with two fire rings and the plate setter and the green feet and the large baking stone. The dome will close and there is almost two inches of room all the way around the inside for the heat to go past the baking stone and out the dome. All though I don't know how the convection will work with this setup. :unsure:

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I still think we could grill or even slow cook stuff for a long time. :woohoo:

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Comments

  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
     
    Hi Tim. Just wondering... the dome is round and there will be distance difference from the top of the stone to the top of the dome as one crosses from side to side. Not sure if the outside of the pie will get cooked quicker.

    Wouldn't you achieve the same using the adjustable rig and your extender than the stone?

    Another set up I have been kicking around is using the AR then making a standoff on the outside edges of the bottom stone and then the top pie stone. The pie would be slit in between the two stones, much like the commercial pizza oven.

    Either way one would have to have and extra fire ring available or an extra pizza stone available.

    Just kicking some ideas around.

    Kent
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    I think it's a cool idea no matter what.
    Once the dome heats up real good it would sure give your pizza a nice cook from the top as well.

    Seems like the double stack would also help block the direct heat from getting to your gasket.

    Now the rush of heat coming around the pizza stone might really get the edges hot.

    Can't wait to see you cook on it this way.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    I have thought the same about stone on top.
    I was thinking with my XL I could use a large platesetter legs down to cover my pizza on a stone sitting on the XL platesetter.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
     
    Good idea, I think that would somewhat depend on how high the lump bed is in relation to the plate setter.

    If one cooks pies that have a lot of toppings then it is better to have a hotter dome than plate setter (more cooking from the top rather than underneath of the pie.

    On my large I have used the Spider legs down, metal drip pan (as a diffuser) then the plate setter legs down, green feet and then a thick pizza stone. This set up will give me a hotter dome and more heat cooking the top of the pizza. This set up works well for deep dish or a pie that is really loaded with toppings.

    If I cook thin crust and or pies that have less amounts of toppings such as peperoni n cheese pies then I remove the spider and diffuser. I can get a pretty equal top/bottom heat.

    There are a lot of interesting ways to set the egg up for cooking pizza.

    GG
     
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    Hey Kent, I may have opened a can of worms discussing this topic but it is interesting to me and davehemp asked me to looked into this deeper per the above link.

    I can see now I will have to try a cook and then go from there. I hear what you are saying about possibly being up to high in the dome in order to get even cooking.

    Talk about using the adjustable rig. I could use the rib but, I am also talking about having more lump in the egg up past where the rig will sit. My go to pizza cook setup has been the plate setter legs down with the green feet and baking stone. Recently LC and BobbyQ suggested to me to try the plate setter legs up with the food grid and then the baking stone for baking pizza and I will try this for my next pizza cook. I'm just toying around with this idea. I must admit Photo Egg has egged me on some. :laugh:

    I hear what you are saying about sandwiching the pizza between two baking stones. I have the large 14 inch BGE baking stone and the 13 inch baking stone from CGS. When trying this cook I think I would still want another thermal mass to block the initial indirect setup. Say using the AR and on one layer a baking stone with the pizza on it then on the next level the other baking stone. Do you think you would need to block the heat source below the lower baking stone with the pizza on it? Just kicking it around. :)
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    Hey Darian, Thanks. Like you said. Try loading your egg full of lump to the top of the upper fire ring. Now get the lump burning and close the dome and let the egg stabilize for maybe an hour. I don't know what dome temp pick one. I will say this. I did a Zippylip pizza cook and I did stabilize dome at 750F and after an hour I was able to bake my first pie. It turned out great and I used my infired thermometer to check the temp of the stone to know when to put my next pie on and it came out great but, when it came time to get the next pie on my egg was low on lump so I had to add some more to bake my last pie and it came out great as well. Now this idea I have could allow the baker to make more pies in a row before reloading lump. I wonder if this setup will bake the pie faster on top. I don't know. :unsure:

    I see Kent was talking about the double stack if I understand this right. I find that very interesting. Has anyone tried that setup?

    I feel funny discussing this when I'm not the big grand poo baa in pizza cooks. I wonder if out forefathers have tried this nonsense. :laugh:
    :unsure:
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    2Fategghead wrote:
    Hey Kent, I may have opened a can of worms discussing this topic but...

    It's interesting to me, glad you went to the trouble of posting it.

    "Do you think you would need to block the heat source below the lower baking stone with the pizza on it? Just kicking it around"

    I am not sure, I am thinking some of all this will be how the lump is lit and burning. Some of these ideas just have to be tested out.

    If you decide to play around with all this it would be a good idea to make some notes. Maybe sketch out the setup (or describe it in words) then make some notes on how the lump burns, temps as well as IR temps on the stone, hot spots and how the top and bottom of the pie cooks.

    Testing your ideas out would be an involved project and a bunch of work, however, I think it would be a great post when done. (as if you have nothing else to do in life :) )

    Kent
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    2Fategghead wrote:
    I feel funny discussing this when I'm not the bit grand poo baa in pizza cooks

    You are as big a poo baa and most of the folks. laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

     
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    I hear what you are saying. It will take some in-depth testing.

    Who is going to eat all that pizza. :P ;) :whistle:
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    I agree.
    I have the flip ring for XL.
    Could use spider with pan/XL platesetter feet up/feet/pizza stone/platesetter legs down over the pie.
    One of the great parts of cooking on the Egg...so many differnt ways. Just depends on what you have on hand to use.

    I have 2 1/2 platesetter for my XL.
    My original short leg one I cut the legs off and now it's more like a tri shapped pizza stone.
    One first run new style with the longer legs and one of the newest models I found on Craigs list.
    The Craig's list user was putting it in the Egg legs down with 24" grid directly on the surface of the platesetter. Needless to say he burned the crap out of his ribs from the bottom. I explained to him he needed to flip the setter and so on but he wanted nothing more to do with the platesetter. I gave him a card with this forum site but I expect to see the XL on Craig's list soon. He lives in Million Dollar sub division so it's spare change to him.

    Again, always enjoy your posts.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    I'm going to give it a try this weekend on my XL.
    What temp were you getting on the platesetter with your gun and what brand and model?
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    Try placing two pieces of round bar or flat bar between your two fire rings. They will fit in the notches. You could then rest your adj. rig on the bars and still dump in lump pretty high and use the levels on the adj. rig for pizza stones and you might even be able to place your platesetter on top the adj. rig feet down with pizza stone on top.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    I had a 700F dome and 716F baking stone on BGE feet on plate setter using IRK IR by thermoworks.

    Here is my post of the same.

    http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1011886&catid=1
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    Ha! I'll work on that setup. ;)
  • davehempdavehemp Posts: 109
    Hi 2Fat - thought I'd re-post my response to you from the original post...1st let me say we have a good conversation here and some interesting ideas. There could be a problem with the edges burning - I hadn't thought of that...I think you have to have something between the baking stone w/pizza on it or stone will be too hot, I think...anyway for my earlier thoghts:

    Wow, Outrageous!!!
    My thinking about this was maybe being able to keep a higher air temp around the pie. I use a wet dough, so it takes some careful, slow movement to get it on the stone cleanly(20-30 seconds?), and in that time, I don't like how far the air temp falls - making the stone hotter than the air and increasing the risk of burnt crust before the top of the pie is done...
    I'm not overly worried about the gasket - if anything it seems to me that this setup protects it from open flame more than the usual way I do high temp cooks. I'll switch from Nomex to Rutland next time I need to replace it anyway...
    I don't really need to do over 2 pizzas in a row because it's just me and wifey, so total load of lump wouldn't need to be that much bigger - you make a good point, though, that at least you would have the ability to load it up much higher if you wanted.
    My main thing is if my stone is at 600-700 degrees, then I want the air around the pie to recover to 800 - 1000 degrees as fast as possible when I close the dome. I'm thinking being higher up would make a difference - close to the ceramic dome walls so more heat emitted directly towards top of pie... My wish is for a thin crust pie with bubbly crisp crust done in 2-3 minutes.
    I'm not sure how much it'd cost me for an extra fire ring - my local dealer is not real customer friendly, the Egg is not their main business, and they have to go next door and unlock the showroom so one can look around, and I always feel rushed - along with there's really only one guy who seems to know anything about the Egg stuff.
    I am really intrigued though - this setup looks like it could make for a mighty fine pizza oven. May look online to see if I can find a way to order or at least check price - maybe Fred's M & B?
    2Fat, thank very much for your follow-up - it'd be almost impossible to know for sure if everything would fit without the parts on hand to actually try. You're a great rep for this community - I've really learned much and have had not just a few laughs at some of the humor(Stike, you crazy dude). The forum and members like you makes a great thing - my Egg - even more enjoyable.
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    Those are very close temps. Very nice.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    First, Fred's is great. Give them a call and I'm sure they would be glad to help.

    Second, keeping your air temp hotter than your stone by up to 200 degrees or more might be hard. I have seen posts were people wipe the stone with a damp rag just before dumping the pie to keep stone temp down.
    If you read 2Fategghead his temps were very close between dome and stone. Others have rotated stones as needed. This really creates a timing issue.
    Would be more consistent to find a set up that would work with a stable temp Egg and pizza stone.

    Can't wait to see all the pizza posts next week...
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • davehempdavehemp Posts: 109
    yes, I guess that is too big a difference in temps - I'm still learning, and probably that was partly me trying to make the point that I didn't want the stone temp to be Higher than the air...I've tried a couple of the ideas like you mention - wiping with a damp cloth; putting a metal tray on the stone for a few seconds, etc., but those things end up keeping the lid open all that much longer, and still makes the balance more lopsided towards cooler air and hotter stone - hence more than a couple burned crusts on my table. I guess that's why 2Fat's idea just "clicked" in my head... :ohmy: I feel like my problem is not so much too hot of stone, but not hot enough Air to balance with it. That seems to me to be the natural perfect solution - instead of tricks to cool the stone - tricks to superheat the air along with it... :woohoo:
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    Thanks Dave. :)

    I have some bad news. The 2 fire ring setup is flawed. It works in one egg but not in the other. I did some measuring and found my fire box sits lower in one egg than the other by 1/4 inch. I do think this problem could be resolved by making the fire box a little shorter. Both my egg have the old style fire box with out the new style expansion slit. :unsure: :blush:
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 3,240
    Might be the dough mixture just burning at the high temp, period. may get better results at a lower temp where the air flow over the pie will help cook the toppings with a little more time.
    Thank you,
    Darian


    Galveston Texas
  • davehempdavehemp Posts: 109
    Oh boy...not good...I guess then that the 2nd ring wouldn't allow lid to close? Not a problem that could be solved by finding an extra quarter inch like not using the green feet, but finding something else to serve their purpose that were shorter...? (its catching down low - not up high?)
    I saw somewhere mention of a 2 inch fire ring, but I assume that must be something altered or special made... I don't think I would want to attempt shortening my firebox...
    While I also love a good Chicage style pizza, I am still unalterably in love and gluttonous(sp?) for old school "Coal Oven Style" pizza, cooked at high (800 degrees) for a short time. I. Can't. Give. Up. :)
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    The trouble I was having was the dome wasn't closing all the way. The problem was the fire box was stopping the dome from closing all the way. In the past I have used a grinder to make three BGE feet shorter and my point is you can easily remove some height off the fire ring. If your handy I would first try the setup just in case it works. You may find the plate setter stops your dome from closing. So shorten the fire box or fire ring or plate setter. Heck for all that instead raise your fire ring approximately 3 1/2 inches buy cutting down fire brick and placing them all around the top of the fire box then the fire ring or vice versa...you may get it figured out and then get the fire ring. Let me know If I can help you further. :)
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    BGE does have a 2 inch fire ring for the three tier grid they sell. I do believe they sell separately. :)
  • davehempdavehemp Posts: 109
    Thought I'd let you know that I bought the 2 inch fire ring today at a dealer...I will try that on top of the regular ring, then platesetter legs down, then green feet, then baking stone, to cook pizzas...I'll let you know if the extra 2 inches made a difference... :laugh: okay, that sounds a little weird... :blush: I'm just talking pizza here, people...
  • 2Fategghead2Fategghead Posts: 9,623
    All right. Hope it works to your liking. I'll be watching for you. ;)
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